(December 7, 2016, 10:29 pm)belliesrlovely I say don't worry about it. Whatever happens happens. Just go with it!

If there were ever a piece of advice I would go back and give my 13-18 year old self, it would be that.

At that age there would be girls that I liked, and they knew I liked them, and I knew they liked me, but I would always be so goddamn timid around them and nothing would ever happen. So at 18 years old and newly graduated from high school, it took every ounce of courage I had to ask out The Perfect Girl: pretty, funny, incredibly smart, thought I was funny and attractive, many shared interests... seriously, the total fucking package and serious wife material. SHE SAID YES. I thought I had it made in the shade. But I was still timid around her because I didn't want to do anything to screw up the relationship and chase her away. Turns out that girls really don't like that, and when she dumped me a couple months later I learned a very painful, and very necessary, lesson. After the requisite period of despair and self-loathing, I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and resolved to not make the same mistake again: to be more confident with myself and not let my mind wander to the worst case scenarios. The next girl I asked out initially said no, and I was (to my utter amazement) completely fine with it. A week later she said yes. We've now been together for 15 years and have two kids.

Someone once said, "The worst thing that can happen is that you fail spectacularly." There's a lot of wisdom hidden in that. You can gain some valuable experience by just seeing where it goes with this girl. If she's not The One then the relationship may go up in smoke but life will go on. Or... maybe she is The One. You'll never know unless you try.

1) Sorry bro but "you're too sweet and intelligent for me!" usually translate as "You`re cute, but Im probably worth more!"
2) Yes Your work situation is a huge problem. For most women it is a show stopper if the guys social status is lower than their own. Some may try to resist that instinct and give it a chance, but deep inside most of them seek for a leader, at least their own private one. You make it harder for her actually, since it is soo hard to convince yourself that You have finally found Your leader, if it is Your job to command him all day. Truly dominant women who are really able to enjoy the leadership are extremely rare and sought after (just as every rare objects). If You think she is really worth it, change the job whatever it takes. Once You are no more her subordinate Your chances rise instantly.

Ok, so I didn't see that you replied while I was typing my reply last night.

(December 7, 2016, 10:45 pm)Rudwah She ... was surprised when I didn't try to take her hand or kiss her or anything. I didn't do that because I did not have permission. I need verbal permission to do those things.

You don't need permission to hold hands. Girls usually want the guy to initiate that type of contact. Kissing is a little more nebulous since you have to be able to read her but the same basic concept applies. Now, going anywhere beyond those things or an arm around her shoulder/back is certainly a minefield unless you have permission.

Quote:I know she likes me, and she's afraid of it for 2 reasons. 1, she's my boss (technically)

Ah. Yeah, that's a problem, but it's more of a problem for her than it is for you.

Quote:and 2, she's been horribly abused, both by family, and by men in general and just got out of a long term relationship and doesn't want one now. She also said she doesn't want to hurt me, which I consider that to be a bullshit statement since she also followed it up with the "you're too sweet and intelligent for me!" line that just about killed me.

In my opinion, "you're too sweet and intelligent for me" is a complicated statement, which is appropriate since women are complicated creatures. I could interpret this a few different ways off the top of my head:

1. She doesn't think she deserves you and is fishing for compliments to help build her up. Makes sense given her history.
2. She doesn't think she deserves you, period, and doesn't see a future for the relationship because of the person she is. Also makes sense given her history.
3. "Too sweet" could mean that you are being too timid about her and/or your relationship. Similar to my experience (my ex said I was "treating her with kid gloves").
4. You have been, or run the risk of being, Friend Zoned.

Quote:And she could ruin what little life I have left, this is true. But come 2 years, I won't be here, I won't have to worry about these things, unless I have a reason to stay around. She herself as actually asked me to commit suicide with her on at least two occasions.

Uh... holy shit? Has this girl gotten professional help for the abuse she suffered? I mean, I don't even think that by itself is enough to cut bait but it sure as hell had better come with counseling or some such.

Quote:But I would rather transfer away from the store I love, to work at a different place, if it meant I had a chance with my friend again. I am like 75% sure that if I just go to work, be myself around her, continue to make jokes, continue to talk to her like nothing happened, she will come back and we'll eventually find ourselves at the local Wendy's again, having a good time. I mean, she had me take her to the local porn store one night for her birthday. We went to a club, she grinded on me (against my will), we went bar hopping one night and ended up cuddling in our friend's car, we went out to dinner twice, then went apartment searching together. Then I told her why I like her, and she said we'd be ok and promised to be my friend. She then moved into her new apartment and immediately blocked me on everything and told me she can't be friends with me if it means I will continue to like her.

Dude, if this other girl really went to the trouble to block you on all social media then forget about her - she's gone and you need to move on. Girls may play hard to get sometimes but never like that. My ex did that exact thing to me (she blocked me on AIM - there was no "social media" as we now know it, but the same basic concept applies). I lived in denial about it for six months because I didn't want to believe that what we had could end the way it did, and those six months tore me up. You are setting yourself up for a world of grief if you change your life around just in the hope that you might win this other girl back.

If I may, I'd like to throw my two cents in here. My personal advice would be three things. One, never, EVER get hung up on one girl. One of the biggest mistakes guys make(myself included) is to get infatuated with one girl and focused all their energy on trying to get that one girl who has already put you in the friendzone. If the woman is not interested, it's important to cut ties and move on to another woman. As men, our role in personal relationships(fair or not) is to be the pursuer. So, as difficult as it may be, we have to get used to rejection. One woman's no is another woman's yes. You seem like a pretty confident guy so, you already have half the equation down.

Two, broaden the places where you go to talk to women. Bars and night clubs are probably the worst places to go if one is looking for quality relationship material. Most of the people there are just looking for quick flings, hook ups or one night stands. Like one poster already suggested, if you take art classes, that's one great place to find a woman, especially one that shares a similar interest with you. You could try the library(you'd be surprised), whole foods or nature stores, friends of family members your age, or the women you meet while you work and go about your daily life. Look up info about any special events in your local town or city. Special events are good places to meet new people. You could also try the popular dating sites like match, or alottafish.

Three, don't make her interest or lack there of in art the determining factor of whether to pursue the relationship or not. There are many happy couples who don't share similar interests. If the woman seems great, easy to talk and has a fun personality, go for it. Look at as a way to share your interest in art and she'll share her personal interest(whatever it is) with you.

Don't give up man. There a million single women out there looking for good guys. You'll find that quality relationship and when you do, it will be worth the wait.

(December 8, 2016, 4:41 am)motofoko 1) Sorry bro but "you're too sweet and intelligent for me!" usually translate as "You`re cute, but Im probably worth more!"
2) Yes Your work situation is a huge problem. For most women it is a show stopper if the guys social status is lower than their own. Some may try to resist that instinct and give it a chance, but deep inside most of them seek for a leader, at least their own private one. You make it harder for her actually, since it is soo hard to convince yourself that You have finally found Your leader, if it is Your job to command him all day. Truly dominant women who are really able to enjoy the leadership are extremely rare and sought after (just as every rare objects). If You think she is really worth it, change the job whatever it takes. Once You are no more her subordinate Your chances rise instantly.

Ok, see, the funny thing is, my social status is above her. She has no college degree, and I have more work authority, and EVERYONE knows it. I am basically the supervisor for the electronics area. Not to mention I have so much actual power and seniority that everyone concedes to me. The only thing I can't do is open registers because I don't want to have money rights. I can go into the safe, I can close registers, not even this girl is allowed to do that lol. I just...I just don't want the responsibility of having to handle the money, simply because I will fuck up and count something wrong.

And I won't leave me job UNLESS she agrees to date me and I know I won't date her unless she gives me a trial run. If she likes what we become, I can just transfer to the store across the street. Actually SLIGHTLY closer to my house, like a 4 minute drive instead of a 4:20 minute drive. I would transfer in a heart beat and it would just force it. I already have confirmation that the other manager would jump to take me. So did her front end supervisor, who I worked with today.

Next point, as doubleintegral asked, yes she is in therapy, so am I. My therapist says that her being in therapy and from a very similar situation makes it easier. We both don't have to explain the dark side of our childhoods. We can just say "oh yeah, lit on fire" or "thrown down the stairs" and we don't need anymore explanations. Hell, she met my dad for a minute and he flipped out in front of her because he's retarded and did too many drugs in the 70s and 80s.

The suicidal stuff, well, I'll be honest, the culture I have been most exposed to since my professional-academic life started, idolizes suicide so lol. As the great Zhuangzi said when his wife died, people asked him "why are you so happy, your wife is dead!", he replied "Good, she is free and no longer has to put up with this world and its evils." Though his wife died of old age and he was also the philosopher who said he could tell if a fish was content just my looking at how it swam, sooooo.

My next point, so she and I talked at work today, made up. Things are fine. We're gonna go out to dinner again next week. Women are strange. I am not hung up on her, bit I am very interested in her. I don't feel like I am able to be loved by normal women. They get close to me, learn the "oh you have a fetish, nasty" and leave, or "you only draw pregnant girls, gross" and leave, or "you've been abused, I don't want to hear this" and leave. I don't HAVE any of those problems with this girl. She is no foreigner to this.

Plus being drunk and confessing I like preggos while in our friend's car, which was brought on by seeing a hot pregnant girl while bar hopping and me stopping like a dumb ass and being all "NICCCEEEEE!!" out loud...well lmao.