(July 9, 2020, 10:36 pm)orta03 I feel a need to be a devil's advocate here.  Did we just forget about the MASSIVE protests that took place in several cities across the country a few weeks ago?  Protests with tens to hundreds of thousands of people(young people) packed tightly together with many NOT wearing masks?  It seems to me that the protests likely aided in re spreading the virus.

Others have addressed this, but I'll jump in.

George Floyd was killed in Minnesota on May 25.  The incubation period for COVID-19 is 2-14 days, with a median incubation period of 4-5 days.  So states that saw large protests would start to see a spike in cases in by the end of May and no later than mid-June.

Minnesota did not.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronaviru...minnesota/
New York did not.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/
DC maybe a slight spike, but not sustained. https://www.worldometers.info/coronaviru...-columbia/
Washington state maybe a slight spike, with a larger spike later that could not have been related to protests.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronaviru...ashington/

And this doesn't include the several European countries (e.g. UK, France, Germany) where equally massive protests occurred but COVID case spikes did not. Not linking those here since I'm sure you know how to use Google.

The difference is that, contrary to your assertion, many - nearly all, really - protesters wore masks. So, no, the protests didn't cause the spikes we've seen beginning in late June. The spikes now are from the steady relaxing of restrictions by state governments and from right-wing snowflakes that can't be bothered to wear a fucking mask in public.

(July 10, 2020, 1:15 pm)Akhenaten We can have an American left/right conversation when the center truly becomes the center again. Not much point in it, now. There is no "left" in America, at least not one with any actual power. Hint: that's why we're going backward and not forward in pretty much every quality-of-life measure when compared with other countries. They invest in their citizens. We invest in the wealthy, in corporations, and in the military. Sometimes I'm not sure where people get ideas to the contrary. Are numbers not good enough evidence anymore?

I'm sorry but, you have to be joking, right?  Most education institutions, media, music, popular publications, television and movies are firmly in left-wing control.  Hell, even corporations are now toting many progressive talking points.  Even the NFL now is supporting groups like BLM.  The only problem is Trump is their road block and that's why they despise him.  I'm mostly center-right and even I see how much influence the left has currently.

To your second point, I think that's where the modern American left has failed. It's no longer about protecting the rights of workers, investing in communities and favoring diplomacy over unnecessary military action. It's now more about pushing social justice and radical cultural change. I think this is because the old guard lefties have been replaced by wealthy progressives. It's why they thought HILLARY of all people would somehow appeal to working class Americans in the Midwest. Got to get a woman in there instead of an actually good candidate.

Oh brother!! Lol I’ve been triggered and can’t resist commenting on this annoying topic again so here goes.

The protesters were not social distancing. Their groups were massive large scale gatherings. Some wore masks while others didn’t. Studies have already come out showing wearing a face muzzle dose not make you invincible.

No one is going to convince me that the GF protests did not play a role in spreading COVID-19. Liberals will have you believe reopening is the sole cause and that is simply political garbage juice.

Im not drinking it folks.

You can bet your pregnant pussy that if Republicans had sponsored those protests the narrative would be different. Trump would be taking heat for allowing protesters to go out there in large groups and spread the virus.

Because the protesters are liberal of course they did nothing to add to the spike.

Bunch of liars.

To be fair to any side, it is hard to prevent a spike if you protest for reopening in support of the Right, or protesting in support of the current Left narrative. Sinuses are the only place for infection. Eyes are major, something I constantly fear because I wear glasses and frequently touch my face in and out of a mask. Masks can fog em up. Sucks, but I’ll wear a mask.

I’d say, just wash your hands and follow what the data says about transmission. I don’t see why we have to make a virus political for the nature of it. Only the response, as many of you have said, gets political. It’s important we work together though, no matter how we feel.

Remember if you are American, you have millions of neighbors and citizens to rely on.

I’m just personally voting for Jorgensen because I feel that it won’t be a wasted vote to me. I’m expressing my rights. Good enough for me. If I lose, it won’t make me change. Only reasoned dialogue can illicit that, and I think more debates should be like that now. Respectful and reasoned. Not name-calling and strawmanning.

Are we gonna sit here and act like Republicans weren’t out protesting earlier? Both parties have protested, but it seems that the left tend to wear masks more so I’ll give them credit there. If you’re going to sit here and make a virus a political issue, then you’re inherently part of the problem.

Exactly what I pointed out @InflatoPreggo , anybody can contribute by willingly going against any guideline. In broad terms it has been more Republicans because of individual rights, but it is also happening with anyone who simply wants a return to the norm.

Compromise is best for all. It is possible to be safe and realistic at the same time. I’d say most businesses, services, and citizens are doing the right thing.

(July 10, 2020, 3:14 pm)orta03 I'm sorry but, you have to be joking, right?  Most education institutions, media, music, popular publications, television and movies are firmly in left-wing control.  Hell, even corporations are now toting many progressive talking points.  Even the NFL now is supporting groups like BLM.  The only problem is Trump is their road block and that's why they despise him.  I'm mostly center-right and even I see how much influence the left has currently.

What you call "left" is really neoliberal garbage. Not progressive. And corporations are still very, very much Wild West free market capitalism -- they're only toting progressive talking points because they see dollar signs in doing so. The only purpose of a company is to make money. Anything a company does, ultimately, is for profit. Good will can generate profit. Let's be very clear about motivations: there is no altruism. Altruism gets you kicked off the board of directors (something I actually agree with... you wanna do that shit, join a non-profit).

There are some institutions run by liberals, yes, but they absolutely trashed Bernie Sanders because he was going to fuck up their shit. They've got a good thing going and won't abide interruptions -- it's why Biden, a demented puppet, became the annointed one. Better to lose to Trump than have a mess like Sanders get too close to the sun. I do not care for liberals. They lost their way.

(July 10, 2020, 3:14 pm)orta03 To your second point, I think that's where the modern American left has failed.  It's no longer about protecting the rights of workers, investing in communities and favoring diplomacy over unnecessary military action.  It's now more about pushing social justice and radical cultural change.  I think this is because the old guard lefties have been replaced by wealthy progressives.  It's why they thought HILLARY of all people would somehow appeal to working class Americans in the Midwest.  Got to get a woman in there instead of an actually good candidate.

I don't think it's even about pushing social justice and radical cultural change, man. I don't think liberals stand for anything except "ORANGE MAN BAD!" Fucking worthless. And it's not that the old guard was replaced with wealthy progressives, because progressives (the serious ones) are all about fixing shit for your average American, with a healthy helping of idpol to make sure we're not being racist or sexist shitheads while we're at it. The old guard simply got old, and is still running things, their claws deep in it all, clutching for dear life as Americans wake up to the fact that the party that was supposed to be on their side has completely abandoned them and now simply takes the safe, kick-the-can path at every turn... and is rewarded handsomely for doing so. Again, no love for Democrats here -- they're only slightly not as bad as Republicans because at least they don't try to take away women's right to abortions and stuff.

Oh, and you're right about Hillary. She was a shitshow of a candidate. My god.

Black Lives Matter is owned and operated by the left. Every one of those protesters was a liberal. They got protection from following social distancing regulations because they are part of the left. The left has always received special treatment in this country. The rest of us were told to stay home, close our businesses while they were free to act like savages, looting, running around destroying buildings.

COVID-19 is being used as a political wedge folks. We can deny it till our waters break but there is no escaping what’s going on here.

It's really really easy to label people you don't like as "left" on the political axis when you don't like them. But get any other country's opinion and the "left" wing in america is just as corporate and willing to step on the neck of the working class as the "right" is, save maybe a few public figures. It's really easy to blame all your problems on a nebulous "left" that tends to be as right wing as regular conservative parties in other countries.

But on the note of protests, and the science of masks and what not I can probably walk anyone who has questions about that and/or conspiracy theories over how these things work, I have a decent background with that stuff. When you get down to it even the looters wore masks lol. Unlike certain rally-goers who were packed in next to each other to look good. Even if the fake "left wing" of america denied Covid-19 to begin with (which they did, fuck them for that), they at least changed their tune. Unlike a certain president who continues to downplay it...

If you wanna do the both sides angle, "Left" and right wing both suck. But you gotta give credit where credit is due. Or call out stupidity where stupidity is due to be called out.