Before reading: This is a long post. However, I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this topic as I am sure that many men have experienced similar things in their personal and dating lives. Thank you in advance for your time and thoughts.



Hi everyone,


Just thought I would create a thread to see what your thoughts are on dating, meeting women, and relationships. I am curious to see what other members of this community feel about the above topics, especially since I don’t have many, if any, good sounding boards to provide ideas on this topic at the current moment. I will give you a little more context below.


I am in my late 20’s. I consider myself to be relatively good looking, present myself well, and have a lot of things in life for which I am blessed and extremely grateful: my health, a job, being raised in a great family, etc. I am above all things BLESSED- I want to put that out there first because I do not want this thread to sound like I am not grateful for everything that I have in my life, because that is the farthest thing from the truth. However, I am thinking about entering the dating world again and want your thoughts before I do.


I have had 2 serious, long-term relationships in my life. I was completely head over heels in love during my first relationship 10 years ago (which ended after about a year), and the more recent relationship I had lasted 9 months. In the latter relationship, I loved her but was not “in love” with her, and had to break off the relationship after 9 months because of many reasons, but the biggest one being that I simply was not in love with her. In between those relationships, I have gone on many first dates with women, which can be characterized by apathy and caution on behalf of the woman. It puts a bad taste in my mouth and certainly doesn’t make me look forward to the dating world. In the eyes and words of some people (maybe mostly women but speculating here), they say that “dating is fun!” but I do not see it like this. It may be fun on behalf of the male if the date actually went somewhere, extended beyond one date, if the woman could actually be a normal human being and not seem to have her guard up, and it wasn’t a complete waste of money because you want to be a gentleman and pay for the date. I think in the future that I will opt for cheaper first dates, like coffee.


I don’t exactly put myself in many situations where I can meet women. I don’t frequent bars as I do not drink (personal choice- also, my family has a history of alcoholism). Also, visiting a bar or party where patrons are abusing alcohol is just not my thing. I am the personality type where I do not care for a single second if I fit in- I march to the beat of my own drum. Additionally, I do not hang around people that I do not care for or that live a lifestyle that is repulsive to me (drug abuse, heavy partying, etc.). Additionally, I do not have social media because I think it’s stupid. Again, I do not put myself “out there” so I effectively limit the opportunity to meet women. I was thinking of putting myself on some dating apps. This makes me nervous as I am against social media and the dating apps are similar to social media, but it appears like one of the only ways to viably meet women in my case, and considering that there is a pandemic going on. A necessary evil, maybe.
One aspect that has aggravated/bewildered me about dating is the amount of time that you are supposed to give someone to “give them a chance.” I know rather quickly when I like someone or not- it really only takes either a few minutes or few seconds sometimes- you know when you have that attraction to them or not. I learned this lesson the hard way from my last relationship- I kinda knew I liked her but I wasn’t 100% super-crazy-in-love-head-over-heels for her like I was with my first relationship. However, I dated her for 9 months and waited for that feeling of attraction to come, but it never came.


There is also the pain of the sympathy and empathy from family members and close friends who learn that I am still single or that a relationship didn’t work out. It pains me to see that friends and family feel badly because a relationship didn’t work out for me, or that a date didn’t work out. I don’t want to hurt the people closest to me, and cannot stand to see them hurt or hurt on my behalf. I don’t want them to hold my hurt. I never asked them to. I would much prefer them to say something like, “On to the next one!” and just have a fail-fast, positive attitude instead of this bummed-out attitude that makes me feel like I am too picky or that my standards are too high. This really bugs me a lot.


Finally, let me say two last things. I have met a few women that I was extremely attracted to, but they were already dating other guys. This would lead me to the dangerous mindset (let me emphasize that because it truly is a dangerous mindset) that “all the good ones are taken.” This is a load of BS but I sometimes fall into this way of thinking. It is clearly not logical and based purely on emotion. The sample size of women that I have interacted with/dated/encountered is so small that it is clearly not representative of the entire world or even country. Second, I get angry at the thought of the unfairness of dating. For example, there are many people in this world who are amazing, kind, caring, wonderful and overall AWESOME human beings that may never find romantic love, all because of the fact that they are not attractive enough. This really bugs me a lot (and I feel like Holden Caulfield right about now, thinking about this haha). Relating to my life, I think about women that I have gone out with who were great and nice and caring and had good personalities, but I felt no spark and no attraction to them. It makes me mad because 1) the unfairness of the world, and 2) that I consider myself to be a moral person that can see beyond a person’s physical features, and I do in all aspects of life, except for dating. If I am not physically attracted to the woman but she is a good human being, I feel ashamed because I am not living up to the moral standard that I expect from myself. (Sidenote: Meanwhile, there are people out there who do not think/analyze their life at all and have sex with new women every weekend and live life on the ragged edge of disaster. Go figure. Still, I would rather be the person to over-analyze my life any day of the week.) I suppose that this goes back to the definition of a romantic lover vs. a friend, or erotic vs. platonic love. Still, I feel shame over this.


In conclusion, I believe a lot of my problem has to do with the issue of over-analyzing every aspect of my life. Some men just get out there and meet women and have no sensitivity whatsoever. I, on the other hand, am very analytical and nit-pick, scrutinize, and think about everything. Not that this is a bad thing most of the time, and it is very much a piece of my personality and makes me who I am. However, when it comes to this issue, where I must put myself out there, meet women, fall down repeatedly and get back up over and over again, it is difficult for me as a sensitive person to fathom this thought. I have used dating apps in the past, but it would take a long time for me to muster up the courage to use them every time I would use one. It seems like this time has taken the longest to actually make the decision that I should get back on them.


I am writing this thread to get your opinion on this matter, see if you have experienced anything similar, and help to put me back in a positive and (hopefully) logical mindset where my life is not so directly dictated by my negative emotions towards dating and women.


In addition to addressing the topics above, here are some other questions/topics that I have thought about. Trust me, this list is not complete and I could write a book, but here are the most relevant/pressing topics:

• What are pieces of advice that you can give me (and hopefully others in this community) that will uplift and help me keep a positive attitude despite my experiences in the dating world? After all, the sample size of women that I have encountered is miserably small compared to the size of the world.
  

• Do you think that God factors into this? Does a higher power determine the right place, time, and situation where we meet the people in our lives (also true for our significant others). I ask this because I have positively and almost directly seen God work in many ways in my life, mainly through bringing people into my life at certain points. Curious to see what other people’s thoughts are on this.
  

Curious to see what your thoughts are on this, especially since I don’t have many, if any, good sounding boards to provide ideas on this topic at the current moment. Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts! All opinions and responses are welcome, positive or negative- I am above all looking to see what other people’s thoughts and opinions are.


If you made it this far, thank you for your time and patience! Have a great day!

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03 It may be fun on behalf of the male if the date actually went somewhere, extended beyond one date, if the woman could actually be a normal human being and not seem to have her guard up, and it wasn’t a complete waste of money because you want to be a gentleman and pay for the date. I think in the future that I will opt for cheaper first dates, like coffee.

I'd cool it on the stodgy outdated gender stereotypes, if I were you. They're going out of style. That said, there definitely are still women who will say shit like "is chivalry dead?" as if to pine for the good old days, but when you realize the good old days were the man buying the woman dinner, opening doors for her, getting her back to his place and demanding sex because he's entitled to it for being such a gentleman all evening... and she's too drunk and/or afraid to say no... well, frankly, ew. You probably want someone who recognizes the evils of rape culture and wants nothing to do with it, right? And yes, you're right to focus more on cheap and quick first dates. Ask women out for coffee and/or tea. It takes the pressure off. Plus, if sparks fly and you end up sitting there talking together for 3 hours, you'll know something special is going on. It can be quite exhilarating.

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03 I was thinking of putting myself on some dating apps. This makes me nervous as I am against social media and the dating apps are similar to social media, but it appears like one of the only ways to viably meet women in my case, and considering that there is a pandemic going on.

Dating apps are not exactly social media, so using them while thinking traditional social media is stupid works just fine. Furthermore, dating apps have gone 100% mainstream and are a humongous part of the culture for people in our general age group now. They're also raking in money, because they're more efficient than the old bar-hopping bullshit you and I both loathe (I don't drink, either, so I totally hear you).

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03 I know rather quickly when I like someone or not- it really only takes either a few minutes or few seconds sometimes- you know when you have that attraction to them or not.

Same. And that's alright. Don't beat yourself up for that, ever. You don't owe anyone anything, and if you know, you know. But! The same goes for the woman sitting across from you. And the dating landscape for them is, frankly, scary. That's why they're often very cautious around you. Try to keep that in mind.

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03 There is also the pain of the sympathy and empathy from family members and close friends who learn that I am still single or that a relationship didn’t work out.

If you don't want to talk about something with someone, don't. You don't owe anyone conversation.

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03 If I am not physically attracted to the woman but she is a good human being, I feel ashamed because I am not living up to the moral standard that I expect from myself.

There is no shame in not feeling attraction to someone. I understand you want to reward people who you think are morally righteous, but that's not your responsibility in life. You don't get to control your level of attraction to a person and should not hold yourself up to that standard. You can only fail, which will result in unnecessary negative feelings.

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03 In conclusion, I believe a lot of my problem has to do with the issue of over-analyzing every aspect of my life.

It's not that you're overanalyzing things. I've thought about every issue you've brought up here, and more. Relationships are a HUGE part of my life. Dating, not so much, because I hate dating and see it as a means to an end (a relationship). It's really more that you might be coming to warped conclusions based on some of the viewpoints you hold at this time. Reframing some of your more problematic thought processes will likely bring you some relief, but manage your expectations carefully: dating pretty much sucks no matter how cheery you try to be about it.

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03 I am writing this thread to get your opinion on this matter, see if you have experienced anything similar, and help to put me back in a positive and (hopefully) logical mindset where my life is not so directly dictated by my negative emotions towards dating and women.

Dating, as an activity, isn't fun for everyone. For you, it's not fun. I don't enjoy it, either. And we probably won't ever think otherwise. That's fine, not everyone loves everything. I would advise that you separate "dating" and "women" in your mind, though. I realize that's tough since, you know, you date women. But you don't want to have innate negative emotions towards women. Think about it: out there right now, most likely, is at least one woman with whom you're going to build a future relationship. And she's probably quite wonderful. You may dread what you're going to have to go through to meet her (or them), but mind that you don't passively maintain and express a disdain for women, because they'll see that a million miles away, and there goes your chance.

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03 What are pieces of advice that you can give me (and hopefully others in this community) that will uplift and help me keep a positive attitude despite my experiences in the dating world? After all, the sample size of women that I have encountered is miserably small compared to the size of the world.

My dating requirements narrow the number of possible options down to a ridiculously teeny tiny microscopic sample of the female population in my area. Dude, you have no fucking idea. And it's downright depressing. The whole thing feels like sitting in a waiting room for someone to finally show the hell up when she's damn good and ready. But that's what it is, and we have no control over that. People are at different stages in their lives, so it all comes down to timing. You'll meet someone eventually and when you're talking, you'll discover that right now, this very moment you're reading these lines of text, that she was in a long-term relationship and therefore unavailable to date. And then, suddenly, that relationship ended, and she appeared on the dating scene, and you met, and the rest is history. I know this isn't a great answer (it's basically "uhh just keep looking, man"), but it's what I've had to accept.

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03 Do you think that God factors into this?

No.

(June 4, 2021, 12:38 pm)deliman03

• Do you think that God factors into this? Does a higher power determine the right place, time, and situation where we meet the people in our lives (also true for our significant others). I ask this because I have positively and almost directly seen God work in many ways in my life, mainly through bringing people into my life at certain points. Curious to see what other people’s thoughts are on this.

Hey man - wishing you the best. This is a short response, but I still figured I'd write it on the chance that it's helpful to you. Not at all trying to be insensitive or imply this is responsible for all or even most of the issues you're describing, and you can always choose to disregard it if it comes across that way (though I'd urge you not to).

I'm a well-adjusted guy (I have to turn down women at my grad school or general life almost twice a month) and in my personal life and those of my friends (male and female), hearing this would always cause a loss of interest. I'm not saying you say this exact thing to women or that it's the content of the belief itself (belief in God) that's bad. But more how you're using the concept here. This type of thinking definitely bubbles up in daily life quite frequently.

If I heard this, it would concern me that this was a considered response to a question about dating success. That instead of focusing on reasons that are centered in improvable aspects about yourself where through practice and change and honestly about one's flaws (and a perspective that's open to admitting one is flawed and fixing oneself), you seriously consider that the real reason your romantic life is struggling is because it was ordained by God as 'not the right time.' There are very consistent ways to view God, predestination, and in fact this very thought, that don't result in shifting blame and focus from yourself to neutral circumstances out of your control and that don't carry much blame ("I think too much," "Maybe this is God's plan"). For instance, why would it be God's plan to have you unsuccessfully yet repeatedly flounder around in the dating pool when his plan could be to help you learn and grow from failures that you have some control over?

Yes, there is an implication here. The implication is that there are flaws you can't see. This is almost certainly the case. To be blunt, which I urge you to dispassionately do as well, for your own good, even guys who aren't hot don't go on as many dates as it sounds like you have and almost never get past first dates. Think about this statement you made "...if the woman could actually be a normal human being and not seem to have her guard up, and it wasn’t a complete waste of money because you want to be a gentleman and pay for the date. I think in the future that I will opt for cheaper first dates, like coffee."  These are normal human beings, at least most of them. What's more likely, you just never encounter normal women despite going on x many dates or that most are normal and as a pattern seem uninterested in you? The common denominator here is you. Also as I guess a minor note, the coffee date decision is a good one but you've made it for almost the entirely wrong reason. Instead of recognizing that the dinner/coffee date distinction leans toward coffee for almost everyone that doesn't belong to a certain class (mostly the upper classes, a little in the upper middle classes), and that it they might find it overeager, you want to switch to coffee cause it saves you money. But again, the important thing right now isn't me trying to show you in particular what issues there are, but more that they just have to exist in order to explain what you're seeing. If you realize that, hopefully you can motivate the work that such a shift of focus (back to yourself) can take.

Put a little differently, dude I know it's crazy but women are just people, like you and I. There isn't some secret code or subterfuge with expectations. These women liked you enough to go on a date with you! Why would women say yes, make and change plans, get ready, invested, look nice (all the normal human things to do when you're hopeful things might go well) only to stubbornly hold her guard up the entire date? 

I really don't mean for this to be harsh - you come across as a fundamentally good person who is justifiably frustrated with where they're at and want to do what they can to help themselves overcome it. And I could talk about other things too, but felt strongly about this point in particular and think it could be a good point-of-entry for somebody interested in approaching self-improvement. Best of luck

I belive sometimes you have to let life flow. When I met my wife it was soupposed to be sex cum and go. Instead we ended up getting Dennys and going to Wal Mart. Wasn't looking for anything yet I found it.

It appears the majority of us with the fetish are actually interested in long-term relationships, marrying our partner and even have children with them (both male and female, esp. anyone who's capable of getting pregnant). This is 2021, not 1996, when more and more people trust online dating as a form of "meet and greet", no different than newspaper classified ads in the 1990s, but still, many people find online dating to be rather "taboo".

I'm in my early 20's and I don't date a lot, but I don't think I've been unsuccessful either. It can be very hard to meet people especially ones you click with but it is worth noting that when it comes to something like relationships, we men (and everyone else but I'm talking specifically about men) have a lot of emotional baggage we don't recognize because we've never been taught how.

This can very easily affect and sometimes sabotage our attempts at relationships. I think it's worth noting you seem to have some self awareness about all of this and that's a really good first step to self actualization, but 'overanalyzing' is a very broad category. If there are any psychological blindspots you have about your own behaviour the overanalyzing might be a way of /avoiding/ analysis of the parts where you do need work which are generally emotional hangups that don't get talked about. At least, that was the case for me.