(August 3, 2021, 12:17 pm)McKormick Why cant they just stay in the ocean where they belong instead of us taking them, "training them" and putting them in a tiny cage for childrens amusement?

Because they'll get poached and killed for their meat? What's better, living in a confined space where you'll spend your life as an attraction or getting harpooned by a sailor and gutted?

(August 3, 2021, 12:26 pm)Simbasprime

(August 3, 2021, 12:17 pm)McKormick Why cant they just stay in the ocean where they belong instead of us taking them, "training them" and putting them in a tiny cage for childrens amusement?

Because they'll get poached and killed for their meat? What's better, living in a confined space where you'll spend your life as an attraction or getting harpooned by a sailor and gutted?

But there's a couple things wrong with that rationale. 1, correct me, if I'm wrong, but this "petition" is only regarding Orcas, yes? Orcas are not really hunted any longer, according to the International Whaling Commission (Killer whale (iwc.int) orcas are only hunted in small numbers for food or population control. I'm not an whale expert but the risk of orcas being poached for resources seems negligible.

If this petition was about larger species that are generally hunted like blue whales, this may be a somewhat fair point, but according to Whales.org (Information and facts about whaling - Whale & Dolphin Conservation USA (whales.org) roughly 1,000 whales are hunted each year by people from Japan, Iceland, and Norway. A quick search did not reveal the estimated population of all whales in the world, but I'm guessing the odds that any one whale is poached seems low. I don't believe this would pass a cost-benefit ratio in terms of justifying putting any whale in captivity. According to estimates people have a 1 in 6 chance of dying from heart disease, 1 in 106 chance of dying from a fall, a 1 in 107 chance of dying in a car accident. All of those odds are better then the likelihood that any one whale is going to be poached. So, do you never eat any food with bad cholesterol in it to prevent that 1 in 6 chance of heart disease? Should people be held in captivity to prevent that 1 in 107 chance of dying in a car accident, or any of the hundreds of ways you could die when you step outside?

McKormick asked the very question I thought of when reading the initial post and then explanation by GForce. The justification of being held in captivity needs to be established and the explanation provided did not address that.

(August 3, 2021, 2:12 pm)knicks

(August 3, 2021, 12:26 pm)Simbasprime

(August 3, 2021, 12:17 pm)McKormick Why cant they just stay in the ocean where they belong instead of us taking them, "training them" and putting them in a tiny cage for childrens amusement?

Because they'll get poached and killed for their meat? What's better, living in a confined space where you'll spend your life as an attraction or getting harpooned by a sailor and gutted?

 According to estimates people have a 1 in 6 chance of dying from heart disease, 1 in 106 chance of dying from a fall, a 1 in 107 chance of dying in a car accident. All of those odds are better then the likelihood that any one whale is going to be poached. So, do you never eat any food with bad cholesterol in it to prevent that 1 in 6 chance of heart disease? Should people be held in captivity to prevent that 1 in 107 chance of dying in a car accident, or any of the hundreds of ways you could die when you step outside?

Yes, in fact millions of people cut out bad choloesteorl in their diet. Yes and they already do when their license gets revoked due to impairment, drunk driving, or medical reasons such as seizures.

And let's be honest, more people being held in captivity would've made covid a whole lot better in the long run since having lockdowns was the most effective way of preventing deaths.

(August 4, 2021, 12:03 am)Simbasprime

(August 3, 2021, 2:12 pm)knicks

(August 3, 2021, 12:26 pm)Simbasprime

(August 3, 2021, 12:17 pm)McKormick Why cant they just stay in the ocean where they belong instead of us taking them, "training them" and putting them in a tiny cage for childrens amusement?

Because they'll get poached and killed for their meat? What's better, living in a confined space where you'll spend your life as an attraction or getting harpooned by a sailor and gutted?

 According to estimates people have a 1 in 6 chance of dying from heart disease, 1 in 106 chance of dying from a fall, a 1 in 107 chance of dying in a car accident. All of those odds are better then the likelihood that any one whale is going to be poached. So, do you never eat any food with bad cholesterol in it to prevent that 1 in 6 chance of heart disease? Should people be held in captivity to prevent that 1 in 107 chance of dying in a car accident, or any of the hundreds of ways you could die when you step outside?

Yes, in fact millions of people cut out bad choloesteorl in their diet. Yes and they already do when their license gets revoked due to impairment, drunk driving, or medical reasons such as seizures.

And let's be honest, more people being held in captivity would've made covid a whole lot better in the long run since having lockdowns was the most effective way of preventing deaths.

But those aren't the same thing. People who eat an extremely healthy diet choose to, no one is forced to maintain any diet, at least not under penalty of breaking the law and certainly not under consequence of incarceration. When did whales give consent to being held in captivity as people who consent to eating a healthy diet do? People who have their drivers licenses revoked is a consequence of negligence, it's a punishment; what rule/law have whales broken that they deserve to be held against their will? I would agree that there was a time that the COVID lockdowns were necessary, but they were not without side effects. There were disastrous effects to the economy, the suicide rate increased, children in their schooling suffered. Did the lockdowns prevent deaths from the virus? Sure, was it free of negative consequences? No.

I assumed your initial comment was out of genuine concern for the welfare of whales, although I could be wrong in that of course. But if I am right, I don't understand why you'd advocate for an invasion on their liberty? If your ultimate point is that individual liberty should be sacrificed because we (whoever "we" is) know what's better for you then you do, I guess that's where we differ, and there's nothing further to say.