(May 13, 2023, 4:55 pm)Stretchedtummy

(May 13, 2023, 2:48 pm)Mboehm

(May 13, 2023, 8:33 am)Stretchedtummy Don't believe the antihuman propaganda, homie.

You say "antihuman" like it's a bad thing.

Honest question, I'm not trying to set you up in a "gotcha" situation, I'm genuinely curious. If you believe humans are evil and this that the other, why are you still here? Again, there is nothing malicious in this question, I'm just curious.

"You should kill yourself if you're dissatisfied with being forced into life without your consent." Do you realize how stupid you natalists sound?

Oh boy… Here’s another thread that’ll spawn the walls of text lol.

Personal opinion here: antinatalism is flawed because something like a concept of happiness and pain are subjective to each individual and can’t necessarily be measured. Live your life how you like, but I doubt you’ll ever convince the rest of the planet to stop having kids unless you find out the secret to immortality.

(May 13, 2023, 5:19 pm)Lucifer Morningstar Oh boy… Here’s another thread that’ll spawn the walls of text lol.

Personal opinion here: antinatalism is flawed because something like a concept of happiness and pain are subjective to each individual and can’t necessarily be measured. Live your life how you like, but I don’t you’ll ever convince the rest of the planet to stop having kids unless you find out the secret to immortality.

It's more flaw when you realize that they apply the same philosophy to animals. Next they'll be complaining about trees procreating and grass growing and how that's somehow morally wrong.

You believe what you believe, I respect that. Just saying that your perception on the world's human population status to be somewhat flawed in the sense that while it has merits in situations where population growth in some areas of the world is out of control, you failed to consider the fact that people in general are not as stupid as you might believe: many folks out there wanted to have a child yet can't due to various reasons, most notably being economic conditions, and while I am a pessimist when it comes to humanity's future, I'm not at the point where humanity in general can't steer itself away from a population bomb. Just my two cents, is all.

(May 13, 2023, 8:35 pm)auraman9005 You believe what you believe, I respect that. Just saying that your perception on the world's human population status to be somewhat flawed in the sense that while it has merits in situations where population growth in some areas of the world is out of control, you failed to consider the fact that people in general are not as stupid as you might believe: many folks out there wanted to have a child yet can't due to various reasons, most notably being economic conditions, and while I am a pessimist when it comes to humanity's future, I'm not at the point where humanity in general can't steer itself away from a population bomb. Just my two cents, is all.

It's not about a population bomb for me; It's that life is so full of suffering and general bullshit that I think anyone who has kids just wants to see kids suffer. Also, there are millions of people who have little money, but breed like rats. I have no "empathy" for those people, or their soon-to-be-breeder children.

(May 13, 2023, 11:04 pm)Mboehm

(May 13, 2023, 8:35 pm)auraman9005 You believe what you believe, I respect that. Just saying that your perception on the world's human population status to be somewhat flawed in the sense that while it has merits in situations where population growth in some areas of the world is out of control, you failed to consider the fact that people in general are not as stupid as you might believe: many folks out there wanted to have a child yet can't due to various reasons, most notably being economic conditions, and while I am a pessimist when it comes to humanity's future, I'm not at the point where humanity in general can't steer itself away from a population bomb. Just my two cents, is all.

It's not about a population bomb for me; It's that life is so full of suffering and general bullshit that I think anyone who has kids just wants to see kids suffer. Also, there are millions of people who have little money, but breed like rats. I have no "empathy" for those people, or their soon-to-be-breeder children.

Ahh, now I understand more clearly. I know that this'll come as weird from me, but a life of suffering, be it from the rigors of societal living or general problems of being a consciousness stuck in a meat sack that will eventually die, is a life worth living in the end, as after all, the curse of existence can become a blessing with enough time and experience once you realize that with badness of the realities of life, comes with the goodness of the realization that we have the power to change it; in essence, while suffering is inevitable, it is always a good idea to find meaning in that suffering in a good way, or at least with me, I managed to make my existence here to be bearable enough by realizing that life is whatever I want it to be, as long as I don't harm people or break the established laws of my country in the process. And I don't see children being brought to this world as a bad thing in it of itself, it always lies on the intention of the parents if the new lives of the children would be easy or hard, and speaking of which, I do agree with your point that people who bring children into this world penniless and almost at the mercy of poverty itself are people who don't deserve to reproduce for many reasons, the most significant one being that they're nothing but a burden to any governmental system that they belong to; already in places like Sweden, the once-strong welfare systems that those governments had are brought down to its knees by those good-for-nothing leeches that bring unnecessary increases in the population and are not contributing to the country's social and economic growth. 

Bottom line, it is foolish in my opinion to totally disregard the need for reproduction, especially if such need can be well-supported with a loving home, stable economy, and a long-term plan for developing the would-be child's future, and that moderation is key in everything, even having children.

(May 14, 2023, 1:58 am)auraman9005

(May 13, 2023, 11:04 pm)Mboehm

(May 13, 2023, 8:35 pm)auraman9005 You believe what you believe, I respect that. Just saying that your perception on the world's human population status to be somewhat flawed in the sense that while it has merits in situations where population growth in some areas of the world is out of control, you failed to consider the fact that people in general are not as stupid as you might believe: many folks out there wanted to have a child yet can't due to various reasons, most notably being economic conditions, and while I am a pessimist when it comes to humanity's future, I'm not at the point where humanity in general can't steer itself away from a population bomb. Just my two cents, is all.

It's not about a population bomb for me; It's that life is so full of suffering and general bullshit that I think anyone who has kids just wants to see kids suffer. Also, there are millions of people who have little money, but breed like rats. I have no "empathy" for those people, or their soon-to-be-breeder children.

Ahh, now I understand more clearly. I know that this'll come as weird from me, but a life of suffering, be it from the rigors of societal living or general problems of being a consciousness stuck in a meat sack that will eventually die, is a life worth living in the end, as after all, the curse of existence can become a blessing with enough time and experience once you realize that with badness of the realities of life, comes with the goodness of the realization that we have the power to change it; in essence, while suffering is inevitable, it is always a good idea to find meaning in that suffering in a good way, or at least with me, I managed to make my existence here to be bearable enough by realizing that life is whatever I want it to be, as long as I don't harm people or break the established laws of my country in the process. And I don't see children being brought to this world as a bad thing in it of itself, it always lies on the intention of the parents if the new lives of the children would be easy or hard, and speaking of which, I do agree with your point that people who bring children into this world penniless and almost at the mercy of poverty itself are people who don't deserve to reproduce for many reasons, the most significant one being that they're nothing but a burden to any governmental system that they belong to; already in places like Sweden, the once-strong welfare systems that those governments had are brought down to its knees by those good-for-nothing leeches that bring unnecessary increases in the population and are not contributing to the country's social and economic growth. 

Bottom line, it is foolish in my opinion to totally disregard the need for reproduction, especially if such need can be well-supported with a loving home, stable economy, and a long-term plan for developing the would-be child's future, and that moderation is key in everything, even having children.

Okay, eat shit. It's not just the poor who shouldn't reproduce. NOBODY should. Life is worthless. Suffering doesn't "build character". If you reproduce, you're a goddamn monster. Sterilization should be mandatory.

(May 14, 2023, 2:22 am)Mboehm

(May 14, 2023, 1:58 am)auraman9005

(May 13, 2023, 11:04 pm)Mboehm

(May 13, 2023, 8:35 pm)auraman9005 You believe what you believe, I respect that. Just saying that your perception on the world's human population status to be somewhat flawed in the sense that while it has merits in situations where population growth in some areas of the world is out of control, you failed to consider the fact that people in general are not as stupid as you might believe: many folks out there wanted to have a child yet can't due to various reasons, most notably being economic conditions, and while I am a pessimist when it comes to humanity's future, I'm not at the point where humanity in general can't steer itself away from a population bomb. Just my two cents, is all.

It's not about a population bomb for me; It's that life is so full of suffering and general bullshit that I think anyone who has kids just wants to see kids suffer. Also, there are millions of people who have little money, but breed like rats. I have no "empathy" for those people, or their soon-to-be-breeder children.

Ahh, now I understand more clearly. I know that this'll come as weird from me, but a life of suffering, be it from the rigors of societal living or general problems of being a consciousness stuck in a meat sack that will eventually die, is a life worth living in the end, as after all, the curse of existence can become a blessing with enough time and experience once you realize that with badness of the realities of life, comes with the goodness of the realization that we have the power to change it; in essence, while suffering is inevitable, it is always a good idea to find meaning in that suffering in a good way, or at least with me, I managed to make my existence here to be bearable enough by realizing that life is whatever I want it to be, as long as I don't harm people or break the established laws of my country in the process. And I don't see children being brought to this world as a bad thing in it of itself, it always lies on the intention of the parents if the new lives of the children would be easy or hard, and speaking of which, I do agree with your point that people who bring children into this world penniless and almost at the mercy of poverty itself are people who don't deserve to reproduce for many reasons, the most significant one being that they're nothing but a burden to any governmental system that they belong to; already in places like Sweden, the once-strong welfare systems that those governments had are brought down to its knees by those good-for-nothing leeches that bring unnecessary increases in the population and are not contributing to the country's social and economic growth. 

Bottom line, it is foolish in my opinion to totally disregard the need for reproduction, especially if such need can be well-supported with a loving home, stable economy, and a long-term plan for developing the would-be child's future, and that moderation is key in everything, even having children.

Okay, eat shit. It's not just the poor who shouldn't reproduce. NOBODY should. Life is worthless. Suffering doesn't "build character". If you reproduce, you're a goddamn monster. Sterilization should be mandatory.

Oh, I see where this is going now. Well, in that case, can't have the cake and eat it too, or can you, I dunno.

I thought that we're finally having a civil conversation regarding this matter; I guess not. If you started to have general mental instability issues with that mentality, I suggest checking with a therapist and re-evaluate your life in general. At least I tried and hey, I haven't been rude to you about what you believe in.

(May 14, 2023, 2:32 am)auraman9005

(May 14, 2023, 2:22 am)Mboehm

(May 14, 2023, 1:58 am)auraman9005

(May 13, 2023, 11:04 pm)Mboehm

(May 13, 2023, 8:35 pm)auraman9005 You believe what you believe, I respect that. Just saying that your perception on the world's human population status to be somewhat flawed in the sense that while it has merits in situations where population growth in some areas of the world is out of control, you failed to consider the fact that people in general are not as stupid as you might believe: many folks out there wanted to have a child yet can't due to various reasons, most notably being economic conditions, and while I am a pessimist when it comes to humanity's future, I'm not at the point where humanity in general can't steer itself away from a population bomb. Just my two cents, is all.

It's not about a population bomb for me; It's that life is so full of suffering and general bullshit that I think anyone who has kids just wants to see kids suffer. Also, there are millions of people who have little money, but breed like rats. I have no "empathy" for those people, or their soon-to-be-breeder children.

Ahh, now I understand more clearly. I know that this'll come as weird from me, but a life of suffering, be it from the rigors of societal living or general problems of being a consciousness stuck in a meat sack that will eventually die, is a life worth living in the end, as after all, the curse of existence can become a blessing with enough time and experience once you realize that with badness of the realities of life, comes with the goodness of the realization that we have the power to change it; in essence, while suffering is inevitable, it is always a good idea to find meaning in that suffering in a good way, or at least with me, I managed to make my existence here to be bearable enough by realizing that life is whatever I want it to be, as long as I don't harm people or break the established laws of my country in the process. And I don't see children being brought to this world as a bad thing in it of itself, it always lies on the intention of the parents if the new lives of the children would be easy or hard, and speaking of which, I do agree with your point that people who bring children into this world penniless and almost at the mercy of poverty itself are people who don't deserve to reproduce for many reasons, the most significant one being that they're nothing but a burden to any governmental system that they belong to; already in places like Sweden, the once-strong welfare systems that those governments had are brought down to its knees by those good-for-nothing leeches that bring unnecessary increases in the population and are not contributing to the country's social and economic growth. 

Bottom line, it is foolish in my opinion to totally disregard the need for reproduction, especially if such need can be well-supported with a loving home, stable economy, and a long-term plan for developing the would-be child's future, and that moderation is key in everything, even having children.

Okay, eat shit. It's not just the poor who shouldn't reproduce. NOBODY should. Life is worthless. Suffering doesn't "build character". If you reproduce, you're a goddamn monster. Sterilization should be mandatory.

Oh, I see where this is going now. Well, in that case, can't have the cake and eat it too, or can you, I dunno.

I thought that we're finally having a civil conversation regarding this matter; I guess not. If you started to have general mental instability issues with that mentality, I suggest checking with a therapist and re-evaluate your life in general. At least I tried and hey, I haven't been rude to you about what you believe in.

Ironically, the only person in this discussion perpetrating his retarded world view of gloom and doom has been himself. We've all been nothing but nice but he's been completely insufferable lmao.

(May 14, 2023, 2:39 am)Stretchedtummy

(May 14, 2023, 2:32 am)auraman9005

(May 14, 2023, 2:22 am)Mboehm

(May 14, 2023, 1:58 am)auraman9005

(May 13, 2023, 11:04 pm)Mboehm It's not about a population bomb for me; It's that life is so full of suffering and general bullshit that I think anyone who has kids just wants to see kids suffer. Also, there are millions of people who have little money, but breed like rats. I have no "empathy" for those people, or their soon-to-be-breeder children.

Ahh, now I understand more clearly. I know that this'll come as weird from me, but a life of suffering, be it from the rigors of societal living or general problems of being a consciousness stuck in a meat sack that will eventually die, is a life worth living in the end, as after all, the curse of existence can become a blessing with enough time and experience once you realize that with badness of the realities of life, comes with the goodness of the realization that we have the power to change it; in essence, while suffering is inevitable, it is always a good idea to find meaning in that suffering in a good way, or at least with me, I managed to make my existence here to be bearable enough by realizing that life is whatever I want it to be, as long as I don't harm people or break the established laws of my country in the process. And I don't see children being brought to this world as a bad thing in it of itself, it always lies on the intention of the parents if the new lives of the children would be easy or hard, and speaking of which, I do agree with your point that people who bring children into this world penniless and almost at the mercy of poverty itself are people who don't deserve to reproduce for many reasons, the most significant one being that they're nothing but a burden to any governmental system that they belong to; already in places like Sweden, the once-strong welfare systems that those governments had are brought down to its knees by those good-for-nothing leeches that bring unnecessary increases in the population and are not contributing to the country's social and economic growth. 

Bottom line, it is foolish in my opinion to totally disregard the need for reproduction, especially if such need can be well-supported with a loving home, stable economy, and a long-term plan for developing the would-be child's future, and that moderation is key in everything, even having children.

Okay, eat shit. It's not just the poor who shouldn't reproduce. NOBODY should. Life is worthless. Suffering doesn't "build character". If you reproduce, you're a goddamn monster. Sterilization should be mandatory.

Oh, I see where this is going now. Well, in that case, can't have the cake and eat it too, or can you, I dunno.

I thought that we're finally having a civil conversation regarding this matter; I guess not. If you started to have general mental instability issues with that mentality, I suggest checking with a therapist and re-evaluate your life in general. At least I tried and hey, I haven't been rude to you about what you believe in.

Ironically, the only person in this discussion perpetrating his retarded world view of gloom and doom has been himself. We've all been nothing but nice but he's been completely insufferable lmao.

It’s almost like the most fatalistic of philosophies out there are always perpetuated by those that are most obsessed with themselves and can’t think outside of themselves and their own experience.

What happens to you at an individual level will always be valid, and its reason for sympathy and compassion from others. But, it is objectively true that life on Earth for humans at least is much better now and relatively easier than it was 250,000 years ago in many different aspects. So this fatalistic view of preventing reproduction for the sake of preventing sadness is flawed. No matter how perfect your life could be, there will be sadness. But should we just cease existing because of that? Would life be “life” without experiencing all emotions possible? How could we be grateful for what we have if there wasn’t any sadness?

If humans didn’t have any sort of negativity, we’d probably take everything for granted and end up making things worse.